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Social Sessions
Brought to you by TJ Creative Agency, a social media marketing agency, this podcast that will take you behind the scenes of the world of social media. Whether you're an influencer, a business owner, a content creator or just an overall creative person we will teach you how to create the perfect social media strategy and build your brand online.
Social Sessions
How to Grow on Instagram in 2024 with Roots Marketing Agency
This week Terrah and Audrey are joined by Jenna and Rachel, founders of Roots Marketing Agency to talk all things social media. On this episode we cover:
-The ins and outs of photoshoot days
-How to create a shot list
-How to grow on Instagram
-If aesthetics matter on social media
-What you need to have in your Instagram highlights and pinned posts
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Have you ever wondered what goes into your favorite brand's digital marketing strategy?
Speaker 2:I'm Tara, the founder of TJ Creative Agency and I'm Audrey, the creative marketing director of TJ Creative Agency. Whether you're an influencer, a business owner, a content creator or just an overall creative person, we'll teach you how to create the perfect social media strategy and build your brand online. Hi guys, welcome back to social sessions podcast. I just wanted to hop on here really quick to kind of intro this week's episode. We have two amazing guests on this week. We have the duo behind Roots Marketing Agency. They are a digital marketing agency that is based in New York, so we have the founders, jenna and Rachel, on this week and it's such a good conversation.
Speaker 2:We talk about content days and photo shoots and how to prep for a photo shoot so you can really make the most out of your time. We talk about if aesthetics are even important on Instagram anymore and what you need highlighted on your Instagram, what you need in your pin posts when your highlights in your bio, everything like that. We really break down how to grow on Instagram in 2024. And it's just a really great conversation. So I'm excited for you guys to hear it and, without further ado, welcome Jenna and Rachel onto social sessions podcast. Welcome Jenna and Rachel. I would love just to get started, if you guys could kind of give us an insight who you guys are, how you guys started your company, anything like that. Just give us a little rundown on you guys.
Speaker 3:All right. Well, I'm Jenna, I'm Rachel and we're the two founders of Roots Marketing Agency, so we started this back in college, when we were seniors in college at Florida State together, and we're a digital marketing agency. We specialize in social media management and content creation.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so when college was ending, naturally it's around COVID time, so everyone's trying to get jobs, they're scrambling, and our friends that are getting jobs that are in sales, they're acting like they're excited and we're like we really don't want to do that. So what could we do? Like I need one idea to work for ourselves. And then we literally saw a TikTok of this girl saying that she does social media for a living and she's making loads and loads of money. And I was like wait a minute, people get paid to do this. So we're already doing the social media for like our dance team and our cheer team and a lot of the jobs we were already working in college. So then that right there in our apartments, we're like all right, how do we make an LLC? What's our domain?
Speaker 3:We were marketing majors as well, as we remember looking at each other and we're like we just need one good idea, like one good idea, like what could we do? And it was very funny. And now we're here three years later, coming up three years. Oh, yeah, love.
Speaker 2:I know I was going to ask what you guys majored in, but that makes sense. You were already doing marketing. What was kind of your plan after school, Like before starting this, obviously, like with your marketing degree? What were you guys in an ideal world? What did you guys want to do? What a great question.
Speaker 3:That was like the funny thing. Like we were both having like these existential crisis. Like my whole family spoke with entrepreneurs and kind of heard as well. So I always like had this vision of working for myself. And then, you know, this kind of came about very naturally, like we started running social media on the side for people and then we kind of turned it into a full-time business. But in an ideal world, like I think, this is what I would have been doing. It just kind of happened that the puzzle pieces came together, yeah.
Speaker 4:I feel like, down the line, if COVID didn't happen, like yes, I would have gotten some who knows? What random sales job and a corporate girl for a while and then ventured over to this area. But everything happens for a reason and I was so mad about COVID and ruining my college at the time. But it would. This would not be if COVID didn't happen.
Speaker 3:Truthfully, yeah, we always talk about that, like the rise of social media and like video and tick tock and people seeing the importance of digital marketing really happened over COVID because no in-person business or no in-person marketing was really happening. All businesses had were, you know, their social media platform.
Speaker 4:So we were very lucky that right at the time.
Speaker 3:Of that was when we were starting this.
Speaker 4:So and it's crazy to think like the term like social media coordinator, which is now like a job title and role, did not exist like even four or five years ago. So it's wild to see how far it's come and even last year, like Forbes posted this whole thing and social media coordinator was like one of the top 50 of booming careers now when that didn't even exist a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1:So true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, tara, and I talk about that all the time Like this was not. I had a similar situation in terms of like how I ended up in social media, like it was very much a college thing. My senior year I had an internship at a social media agency, but they were only like a year old at the time, it was not and I didn't even know it was a job, right. Like I, just I was same thing.
Speaker 2:I was in like kind of a digital marketing type of major and I had had a friend that interned for this agency first and literally the agency was being run out of like a girl's apartment, like it was so Right, that's how he's, yeah, and it was like it was brand new and I was just like, oh well, my friend did this and it feels like it includes everything that I. Like I was like there's a little bit of graphic design, there's a little bit of video, but like it really was not a thing that people now there's like courses in college about social media and I don't think that existed at all when I was in college and I didn't even graduate that long ago, like it hasn't even been five years.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I honestly wonder what the course is you are like now for it, because when we were leaving.
Speaker 2:That was it was a project that was?
Speaker 4:it was a brand new social media marketing class. That was, truthfully, our favorite class in college, like the only one I really remember, but that was like brand new. I think it was maybe a second like round of being a course, but I'm sure they have like a whole major set up for this at this point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's just so funny how quickly everything changes. Okay, so I wanted to talk to you guys specifically about content photo shoots because I know that's something you do for a lot of your clients and I think there's something I don't know about you guys but, like when I hear someone say photo shoot, I'm like, oh, it's so like glamorous, and like I think there's like almost this idea about it of like, oh, you're in a studio, you're like whatever that I want to talk about, like what's actually going on there. So I guess, to get started, how are you prepping for a photo shoot let's say you have one coming up for a client? Like, what are you doing to get ready for that?
Speaker 3:I mean definitely every client is different. So you know every client has a different budget for their shoots to begin with, or a different vision, or they're at a different place. So when it comes to preparing it's definitely like client to client base, but I could say for like the grand scheme. We meet with the client, we get on the same page for the vision of the shoot and then we create like a shot list and, like Rachel can kind of go into, there's like a lot of research that we do beforehand. That really helps set us up for success on the day of the shoot.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and, like you said, everyone is different, so you have to think. Is it a product shoot? Do you need models, and lots of them. So you have to think about do you need a big space? Is it outside? Is it natural lighting? Are you bringing the lighting? So there are a lot of moving pieces that go into it. But as long as you and the client are on the same page of what the deliverables are and what they're expecting, you set yourself up for success or for failure in the prep for the shoot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would say, like the three main steps that we really follow is like prep, so like we'll do research of current trends, like what shot list we want to do, so like there's a mood board. And like prep when it comes to the research of, like the vibe, the pictures that we want to take we get inspo from Pinterest or other accounts or similar niches. Like we create a full shot list, which is definitely like the heavy lifting of the prep, and that shot list has everything that we want to capture on the day. And then, twofold, we get the models, the space, the time slot, booking, everything If we need any external props.
Speaker 3:Like that would be step two. And then, like step three would be making that schedule. So like first, we're going to do video shots. Second, we're going to do these pretty product shots. Third, we're going to do this and that's all like on a time sheet to make sure we're hitting everything on the shot list, cause, like as you said, it seems like this like pretty seamless, effortless day, but like on set times, it can be super chaotic if you don't have like the organization side of it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's really like that and then on the top it was like ComCon collected in the bottom it's like there's a lot in the behind the camera. Yeah, it's a lot of moving parts, 100%.
Speaker 1:So do you have a question just learning about the two of you Do both do photography or is there one that's more photography, one that's more like vision, or do you have just a?
Speaker 3:whole team. I still have them. Our whole team is basically well versed enough in photography and video and social media that any one of our team members could go on a shoot and shoot it themselves. However, we do have like an external team of, like freelance photographers and videographer network that we use. So, like we're we weren't trained professional photographers per se, but we both our whole team like has the eye for it and it's done it enough where we can do it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we have personal cameras. So, like, we've tested and used it a bunch. So, again, depending on the budget of the client and what type of shoot it is, if we we have to figure out right, we'll bring in people.
Speaker 3:Okay, it's definitely really nice when we bring in like a videographer, photographer, if the client has the budget for that, because then we could take our shots and then we kind of get double of their lens our lens and then we have like more to work with, which is like our ideal world.
Speaker 4:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's pretty similar to like how we've done our like agency type of photo shoots. To how often are you doing these shoots for clients? Because I think that's another thing that people don't realize is that sometimes one shoot will last, content wise, the whole quarter, two quarters, like it, will last a long time.
Speaker 4:Yeah, depending on the client. Typically we like to do them once a month, especially if they're in the area, but we do. We have a client that's down in Florida, so once a year we take the team, bring them all the way down to Florida and spend the entire weekend Making one year's worth of content and one weekend.
Speaker 3:But, like you said, like sometimes we'll have a shoot for a client and there's enough models, different faces, that that shoot can last them three to four months. So when it comes to product shots like faces and different things like, we always try to get our clients on board with like a monthly shoe or at least like bi monthly. That way, if there is a new trend we want to hop on, or if there is like other colors of the product or there's different faces, it gets very redundant if you're posting a lot like consistently to have the same faces and the same product. So like if it's a sweatshirt you have the same color for three months.
Speaker 1:They're like you have other products to sell, anything else.
Speaker 3:So we try to really, especially for product brands like shoots have to be a little bit more like consistent, but for services you can kind of stretch it a little longer. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:When you're coming up with like kind of the visuals, the like kind of campaign, the vibe of the photo shoot, who's really is that like a collaborative situation with you and the client? Or do you guys come to the client and you say this is an idea that I think is going to work really well for your product? Like, what does that look like?
Speaker 4:We try to always guide them in the right direction because I mean they are paying us to be the expert and guide them in the right direction. But there definitely are clients that are a little more type A and want their hands on all the pieces. So we always take into consideration what they're saying and sometimes they have great ideas so we will use them. But we make sure to end our call with them that everyone's on the same page. There are no surprises. They will not be upset with the outcome of the shoot like we set ourselves up for success. So everyone's on the same page.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and in terms of some of these questions we are like a more boutique agency in the terms where we could work very one on one with our clients.
Speaker 3:So like there are some clients that every shoot we meet with them and tell them our vision and we work with them like there's stuff that they want captured and at the end of the day, we're working for them and their social media so we bring that to life just because that's what they want. But then we have some clients that we've never even met with them before a shoot and they fully trust us. Like this is our shoot this month, like these are the results and here it is like they're so, like for them it's like as a business owner, like check, this is being handled Right, I don't even have to think about it and like that's the way that they roll. To be honest, sometimes those are our favorite because we get to really be creative and like really do what we think would be best without having to think about the lines of right. You know some regulations or guidelines, but you know we have everyone from like well, a to Z.
Speaker 4:Yeah, there's a wide variety there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, when it comes to making a shot list, how detailed are you guys getting? Because I totally agree, I think a shot list really is the heavy lifting. Like we've definitely done shoots with no shot list and we're like we're leaving and we're like that was fine. And then I think the next time we did it, we were like with the shot list we were like, yeah, that made it seamless, that made it so much better. So like, how detailed are you getting?
Speaker 3:detailed. I would say like to the, to the picture, like to the post, like we had a shoot recently. I would say we were a skincare brand and it was a skincare brand for brides. So, like on Pinterest, we're scrolling like skincare aesthetic, like bride photos and looking up like the actual like aesthetic, to the point where there was a picture where cream had like a heart on her face and we put the cream on a heart and copied like the exact like aesthetic so we had written out like which models going to be in what shots.
Speaker 4:We have enough diversity going on and making sure, like everyone's included enough times, we're not focusing too long on one either product or person. But again, we always know that even if you have every second of the day planned out, nothing ever goes according to plans. Things pop up and especially depending on if it's a in studio shoot, like if you really do have a confined timeline, you really have to be extra detailed with your shot list. But if it's all day and it's outside and there's nothing pressing for time, you can get a little and with the shot list to.
Speaker 3:We try to be really strategic because time is of the essence, like when you're on set or when you book a studio time. For some reason time flies like fast. You're like already done and you're like where did the time go? So we'll think about our shot list almost like in strategy as well. So like, let's say, rachel is one of our models for something will be like okay, product shots, with Rachel doing these shots, while Model 2 is doing these lifestyle videos. Because we could, we have multiple cameras, so we'll do Rachel over here, this model over here, so we can get these shots done at the same time. So, like, when it comes to creating a shot list were one very detailed, with Modeling, the pictures, doing inspo videos, like creating the list. But we're also strategic in the way that we time it out so that we can get multiple things done at once.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which kind of actually leads me to like the next kind of thing I wanted to talk about, which was just really utilizing the time that you have, and I wanted to ask specifically how you're doing Video. I love that you said that you're doing sometimes two things at once, like you have one camera going over here, one over here. What does it look like for video? Do you have that same kind of shot list, or is it like a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff? Like, how are you getting? Because obviously video is such a big part of my social strategy these days, how are you kind of incorporating that?
Speaker 3:So I would say for video, a lot of our brands now are leaning way more towards like the lifestyle content, like it almost looks like user generated, like more laid-back. So, honestly, sometimes even as simple as having an iPhone so someone can do an unboxing on the side While someone else is shooting pictures, like unbox this with me and we'll record that as if it was like UGC style while something else is going.
Speaker 4:But with with video, I would say we like look at and spell yeah, we usually have links set up like someone's holding their phone, like okay. So this is what we're like modeling next of time to emulate. But also there are we do a lot of talking, interview style videos for a lot of our clients, so for those we have the videos scripted, outlined so like to give them the best hooks, best opportunity to keep people on the page watching the full video. So we prompt them with scripts if needed. So we always have them. But, um, that's for more interview style video.
Speaker 3:That's definitely a big one too, because some of the models like, if they will, you want them to talk about a product Right, like for a skincare brand. They don't know all the benefits of that specific Serum that they're talking about. So we will write out scripts for talking videos and then, honestly, on the fly, to will be like can you just keep moving in the in the thing? And we'll do some like b-roll, like on the fly Organic video. I would say a lot as well, because that could be compiled, but we'll do a full shot list of like scripted videos in spo videos, like Audios that we want to use in case they need to be like lip-synced at all and also when we have Excuse me the videographers come in with us.
Speaker 4:Obviously they have the shot list. They know what they're supposed to get, but they are. They know better than we do about Angles lighting is. We do know a lot, but they're professionals. So we let them like, take it on their own as well and go off on their own to get extra, but we always have a guide for them.
Speaker 1:I have a sidebar question. But how do you share content like? I know that all this is happening, right, but do you have a process in where you're, how you're keeping it, how you're sharing it with each other? Because if it's on multiple phones, sometimes you will get overwhelmed by the thought of light Well, how do I, how are you getting all that and how do?
Speaker 4:you should see our shared albums on our phones.
Speaker 3:You know, like if it's internal, like if it's anything like internally, like B-roll will make like a shared album, like an iPhone and the Camerill, but like when it comes to sharing with clients, we always make like Google folders separated, like videos and this folder, photos and this folder.
Speaker 4:And if it's?
Speaker 3:really large files will do Dropbox folders. But yeah, we like typically, like Google.
Speaker 4:Yeah, google Drive is our best friend and Making sure everything's organized like you said video, verse, photo, and then raw and edited. We always give them access to all the raw footage as well, because we understand we love the raw footage too and we are working with people, so if they need Footage for anything outside of social media as well, they have access to everything they paid for.
Speaker 2:Okay. So if you guys are doing these shoots on like a monthly basis, even that sometimes feels like it's not enough to keep up with certain trends. So how are you guys able to do that? Like, are you guys ever in the videos and doing you GC yourself in order to, like, stay on top of trends or kind of what's your strategy there?
Speaker 3:we just made a post about this today because you know, like we said, every client has a different budget and we were noticing, like sometimes paying for models, like actually to come in for a Brand so expensive, and everyone on our team, like is super comfortable in front of the camera.
Speaker 3:So I would say, like, more times than not, we're in it, we are modeling for our own clients and it's so funny because we didn't even mean that on purpose, but like everyone on our team like has like a dance background, cheer background or like was in social media at some point, so they love being on camera. Yeah, so our team of like seven I would say like we're in 90% of the shoot. She's also an actual model. So like I'll be like can you model for me for this brand, but I'm filming it and she's in it, or vice versa, like if she has a client that's like PT, can you do these PT moves? Like we're the models for the shoot. A lot of the time will be on both sides of the camera Someone on our team for sure, which is really funny.
Speaker 4:But yeah, but to answer like what you're saying of let's say we did the shoot and then of course, the next Real or trend comes out on tiktok and we're like we literally just had their shoot. Yeah, some clients are very open to we will message them and be like listen, we need this from you. Could you get this just by x, y and z, film it raw on your phone, send it over. We'll piece the whole thing together and they'll do it.
Speaker 3:If not, then we get crafty and we find ourselves and our friends and Make it happen or like I will even say more times than not, like you can fit footage that you have like into a trending audio, right. So, like, if it's a snooki audio or someone saying something, we can take a clip that we already made and like, put it to that trending sound. Or put it to the trend yeah. And that's where I would say, like the creativity comes in, like, if something's trending, as a social media manager, it's like your job to figure out how you could hop on that yeah and like, with whatever brand you're working with. So, take any clip that you have from a past shoot and Like, put it to the audio and like, make your text, make it make sense. Or, like you know, get creative and hop on it with something you already have in your especially some trends like seems so niche to something super specific it is.
Speaker 4:That's why the IRS to figure out how it can be tweaked and used Across a bajillion different industries so that as well factors in for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've been like this is something that we've been thinking about a lot recently. We'll have these like creative meetings internally and there's always the sounds are pretty easy to like. Like you said, you can use b-roll, and that's been the beautiful thing too, with these like green screen trends that have been going on, like where it's like Michael Scott or like some random person.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm talking about where I'm like you just need a photo.
Speaker 2:Those are so easy, but there's, I feel like more recently, the trends have been less the sounds and more like someone talking on camera. Like, for example, everybody at this point, everybody and their mother has done that. We're girls, we're gonna blah, blah, blah type of yeah, those types of trends that it's not an audio, like. That's the stuff that I think is a little bit harder To do, because you either you need someone talking and you can't really just use like photo shoot content, and that's where I feel like we've at least been. I don't want to say hitting a wall, but it is like you have to text the client and be like hey, do you mind if you film this? And half the time they're like what are you talking about?
Speaker 3:No, I know exactly what you mean, because we're based in New York. But we have some clients that are in California, florida or other places and that is the only way that we get content. So for clients that don't aren't products and they can't ship it to us and they're a service based business not in New York, so like, let's say, a hair salon in Ohio or like a skincare institute in San Diego what we do for them is we'll send them like a weekly shot list that they internally have to capture on their iPhones or cameras and text it to us raw and then we edit it. So for stuff like that, like we literally have to email them and make we work in aesthetics and have film each staff member saying one of these and send it back. So like there are cases where we have to work really hands on with explaining what to do and how to do it to get it sent back.
Speaker 4:And luckily so. Like we have a lot of PT clients, we would spin that and use ourselves as like we're getting PT. Of course this is going to have. Course we're going to show up late, like we'll spin it instead. Of having the PT people doing the talk we spent to the other side, yeah, so sometimes we'll get crafty that way, but or yeah, we're going to have to reach out to them and see if they're willing to participate.
Speaker 2:That's where the like trust with clients like really comes into play, because you'll say these things and you'll be like hey, have you seen this trend? And they'll be like no, what are you in you? That's also like incredibly humbling as a social media manager to be like oh, I just spent so much time online that you just haven't like reached to this side of the internet yet.
Speaker 3:Right, that comes from the link too, because even if they have no idea, sometimes they need to see it. Somebody else doing it that's similar to them for them to even like, want to get on board. They're like oh, lawyers are doing that Like it's not some silly take. Yeah, we have some business owners that think, like, some of the trends are like cheesy or cheesy or they don't need to do trends but until they see another industry that's like similar or they were like. They're like oh, if lawyers are doing it like, I'll do it.
Speaker 3:Or if, oh, if other real estate agents are doing it, we'll do it. So you know, sending a link in Spoe of like other people participating sometimes gets clients more on board.
Speaker 2:Yeah totally agree, cool. Well, do you have any other tips rounding out the kind of content shoot situation? Do you guys have any tips or anything for other people who are, you know, setting up their shoots, setting up a shotless, anything that you guys kind of swear by in terms of making things run smoothly?
Speaker 4:Focus on your preparation. The more prepared you are, the less work you have to do on the day of the shoot. The less stressed you are, the smoother things run, the more content you get. So if you prepare, you really do set yourself up for success, as well as the client.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would definitely say too, like something that I definitely swear by and we do at our agency. So if it's your client before the shoot, like I will always scroll on my own home feed. Like I think everyone in social media sometimes forgets. Like scrolling on your own home feed is like research, like that is research. So like I would scroll on my own home feed or the home feed of the client where there's a bunch of different brands succeeding already. Like if something's being pushed to your explore page on Reels especially, they're doing something right. So like if I have a shoot for a client, like some general advice would be like go on their page, go on their feed and scroll and see what kind of videos are being pushed to you and then add those to your shot list because that's what's working right now. So like I always would say like, be a user, do the research, see what's working and then make sure you incorporate that into the shoot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's literally like what we just did the other day internally, but I love that you said your own home feed too, because that's something that I think we all just did, even just a few days ago of like these have here's some videos that I just loved. I like don't think about it from a marketing perspective Just these are some tick tocks that I loved as a user my own home feed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that have nothing to do with our clients. But like, how can we maybe incorporate something about this video with our clients? Like the video might have nothing to do with, like an esthetician Right, how can we turn like this vibe or this energy of this tick tock to make sense for them?
Speaker 4:Yeah, and when you're planning a lot of the clients that we work with half the time, where they're target audience, like we are the consumer. So if you're on their page or you're on your homepage, what excites you, like, what would make you buy a product, similar or stop? Yes, maybe want to walk into this new place and see what they offer. That alone will give you a lot of information of how to prepare for the shoot yeah. Strategize best.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I love all of that. I want to switch gears a little bit into growth and Instagram specifically. It is constantly changing, even from, like, the time that you guys started this agency, obviously. So how, like what, are some tips that you have for people who are wanting to grow on Instagram now, in 2024?
Speaker 3:We always preach by this, but I've been seeing it more and more and more and more. Like everyone now has K followers. Like everyone in their sister has a K mark, like not, and it's so obvious that so many businesses are buying them and buying your K mark or buying thousands of followers. It does nothing besides absolutely ruin your Instagram. So if you're a business owner listening to this, do not buy followers, because it will ruin your Instagram engagement forever. You will never get views.
Speaker 4:You'll never get conversions from buying Like for years, never like. It could happen. But you have to scrape everything clean, start over. It takes a very long time to reverse the damage done and the thought process behind the buying is it's good for credibility. We look official yes, if anyone maybe ever sees your page but this is not getting pushed anywhere Like beautiful. You have 30,000 followers now, but no one's seeing it.
Speaker 3:They each have three likes, five likes on your pictures. And the reason why this is is because if you bought the way the algorithm works, which you guys both know but a post will go out and it will push to like 10 select or 20 select followers. If you bought bots or bought, none of those people are going to interact with that post. So then it singles signals to the algorithm that no one liked that post. I'm not going to push it any further. Which is why accounts with 30 K get five likes, because their content's getting pushed to bots who don't engage with it. Then the algorithm's getting single signals to stop pushing it. So tips besides that, not don't do that.
Speaker 4:Here's what to do.
Speaker 3:Oh, I would say organic growth, like we said, is the most important. So it's really getting into the mind of your target audience, like where they would be residing. So we always a practice that we do at our agency is, if it's like pure bar, let's say, or if it's a bar, you're looking for fit female women who are going to go to the bar class. So then we think like where else would our target audience be active on Instagram? So we might go to like the local smoothie shop or the salad place nearby, what other fitness women enthusiasts like would like in that area. So then we can interact with the right target audience and we do different organic growth methods to interact with them, whether it's liking a bunch of their pictures, commenting, shooting a message, following. We want to get in front of the right people. So we really think about where would our target audience be on Instagram and then we go after like them organically and strategically, helping to build that page yes, and I mean you hear a million times consistency is key.
Speaker 4:You can be doing all those things, but if you can post it in a month and a half, realistically that's not doing much for your page. So consistent posting with being active this next thing, being active on your account, like the goal of any social media platform, is to keep a user on the app as long as you really possible. So if you're spending time interacting with other accounts, building your community and actually doing things on the app, posting, your stuff will get boosted because the apps like alright, they're actually loyal users and people are. People are like you, people are commenting. Here's shove it on the explore page. But if you're not actively using it and you post and you go send, you don't look at your page and for the week and you haven't liked anyone's account, you've been like any comments that have been made You're not going to get the growth that you would like yeah, I would be so many tips that you go like in depth about, but I would say like bulleted.
Speaker 3:It would be like Outbound outreach. So like going to find those ideal targeted customers that are in your target audience that would be more likely to engage. Really gotta go out and find those people, and so that would be number one. And then to like she said what like your actual time spent in the app is a metric now that instagram really cares about. So using your own page, scrolling on your page, interacting with people on your page, is a really important metric.
Speaker 3:And then, if you are interacting with all the people that your target audience is in, but your page doesn't look good, or if I see who is this that's like in six months and commenting so pretty, I go on your page and it doesn't make me want to follow, then your content isn't good enough. So like, what content and things on your page would make a target consumer want to follow you? So like your grid, your highlights, your bio, all that stuff that happens on first glance is really important. So I think fourth would just be like also creating value. So like, in order to grow, you really need to provide a user value. So like Remembering that users are selfish, they want to gain something, they want to learn something. Why would they follow you, like you have to provide value? So I would think those are the top four, yeah, and five consistent, yeah. Consistency In a nutshell, that's how to grow.
Speaker 2:I love that you brought up that. Like, when someone does look at your account, there needs to be something there that tells them that they want to follow you. What is, like? You said grid, you said highlights. Like what do you kind of recommend, especially let's talk about highlights. Actually, what do you recommend People to have like in their highlights are in their pin post? Like what are some of those important things that they need to get across, like on that first glance?
Speaker 4:I would say the value of the business. So, whether it's a product or service, people when they get to your page, they want to know what is it I could possibly buy or like. What are you trying to sell me? How do I use it and how do I like? What's the action step like? Is there something I do? I click the link, do I send it to a friend? Like you have to have something to do on the page, or If you don't see the value of what they're bringing to the table, I I'm already swiped yeah, we would start.
Speaker 3:I would start with the bio. Like every bio on Instagram should kind of be like who you are, what you do and how you can Do something else. So, like we always say, like the recipe for success in an Instagram bio is like who you are, what you do, and then like the MS. If you wanted this, look at our website for more. You have to have a call to action in the bio, otherwise people don't know what to do. Like If I'm a brand, I would definitely have a link to my website. Like shop our Valentine's Day sale or shop shop whatever. Whatever's going on right now that you want them to do should be right In the bio. And when it comes to highlights, like it just has to be diverse enough. So, like for our social media page, we have like stuff about our work with clients, like Behind the scenes of our company, our mission, kind of like Very well rounded, I think, would say to keep your highlights.
Speaker 1:Like not just one thing like.
Speaker 3:Show testimonials and success stories. Show you actually on the job.
Speaker 4:Then show like samples of your work you know you have to think about the consumer, like what are the things that people ask or want to know before they make a purchase? Does it work? I want to see the reviews. How do I?
Speaker 3:use.
Speaker 4:FAQ, things like that. So so you have to put yourself in the lens of the consumer and think what, what are the basic things that they're going to want to know in order to do anything on this page to buy the product, to do the service, to make the call, do the onboarding? That's what you have to think of in making segmenting out your highlights.
Speaker 1:I think we like to think of it as like a mini website or just like a website, like anything that you would have on your website.
Speaker 3:just know that Answer online portfolio and this might be a controversial opinion, but I would say like I don't know about you as users. I would say, for me as users, I feel like I look at the bio and the pinposts before I look through the highlights. I think the highlights are great to have right at the top, but I don't know if that's like the first thing I look at. Like I would make sure your bio and your pinposts are like Bomb and then work on the highlights, like as a user, what are you?
Speaker 2:recommending for you only get three pinposts, right, like that's three. What are the three things that people should have pinned?
Speaker 3:I think it's a popular opinion to want to pin your like best, most viewed post or your post that was viral. As opposed to like. We try to recommend doing like, maybe one of your most viral posts, like, so people could see like you're like, well liked and you know well respected.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I would say maybe one out of three could be like a really high performing post, but then, like the other two, would definitely be like who you are, what you do, your story, like Our pinpost like definitely should be it probably isn't right now, but like how we started, who we are, like our whole, like vibe of why we are Roots like that to me, or like any business is like why you started. Or your story, your mission should be up there and then, like what you offer, like all your services and your options of your products, like could be pinned as well yeah, and especially the type of business Like your new, your most recent promotion in the sale that's happening.
Speaker 4:so there's always something that's like relevant up to date, but absolutely having one that explains who you are, what you do. Because, again, as we just discussed, we're not gonna look at the highlights right away, we're gonna go to the pinpost first, so put it all there so there's no confusion.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's definitely a difference, like I'm thinking like product and service services. If you have like a select service menu, let's say it's like a hair salon, or you know, like us for social media agency, like we like all of your service options, like Definitely could go in a pinpost where I guess products like you have so many different products you're not just gonna pin Right those at the top, so that's a little bit different between product and service.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do see I love the promotional one. I feel like I was just looking at an account earlier and it's I think it's so great to have that if you're running some sort of promo or some sort of sale and same with, I like that. You said, put that in your bio. To like, if you're like a hundred dollars off your first purchase, like, put that in your bio.
Speaker 4:Free consultation with this link boom, I'm president.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cool. Well, last thing I want to talk about in terms of like Instagram grid is the aesthetics of it all, because this I feel like is a little bit of a debate of some people being like Make Instagram chill again and like, don't like, stop with the aesthetics, and then there's other people who are like no, it's important because it's a first impression. Where do you guys kind of stand on that?
Speaker 4:Honestly, I see both sides to it and, again, depends on the client. So if you're like a Wendy's and you have just like memes everywhere and it's like a little scary they're such a credible and known brand they don't need to do the first impression needs to be amazing. Pretty much everyone knows who they are, so like they can do whatever they want to on their own. But if you're just starting out, I mean, you have to think it's your online portfolio, like you want to your first impression. You want to look your best, you want to have all the information on there, you want to have no confusion. So everything happens how it's supposed to. But it was a picture app first. Like aesthetics are always going to matter and there's a way to be casual and still look nice.
Speaker 3:I just think like the make Instagram casual again, make Instagram chill again, is great for. Like personal pages. Absolutely Everyone's taking that like a little too far, I think, with the businesses. Like your business page shouldn't be casual, like are you a casual business to you, on people to take you seriously? Like your page should show off your brand and if it's not high quality like if it's a restaurant that like it's sloppy and it doesn't look good, like no person.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's gonna want to go there. So to us, like, when it comes to business marketing, your grid is your first impression, it is your portfolio. If it's not to the quality of your business, then your social media isn't good enough. Like I think there's a fine line between like being authentic and showing, like the ups and downs. Like you could still do that in an aesthetic way. But like we preach here that like aesthetics matter, because to us they do and like to most consumers they do, especially for smaller brands. Like you've never heard of this brand before and you go to their page and it doesn't look good, then why even engage with it? So, like, if you're not a big household name corporation, like you have to care about aesthetics and I know that's controversial.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I agree.
Speaker 2:For sure.
Speaker 3:And I like that.
Speaker 2:you brought up the Wendy's example because it's true, like their Instagram is probably not a first impression for most people. You've seen them somewhere else. So I mean, what you said is totally correct. If you're a smaller business, then it does act as that first impression and you want to look nice, exactly.
Speaker 3:We've actually put a couple of videos on our page like the rebrands of the bigger, bigger companies we used to do, the more we need to get back into it. But we would rebrand like Chipotle, or rebrand, give them like an Instagram makeover, because so many big corporations like do not care about aesthetics.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and people are always shocked, but it's like you already know them. You probably ordered it 20 minutes ago. You already got Chipotle. They're not begging to get more customers. They already have such a loyal base they can. There's a lot more.
Speaker 2:They kind of use it more like I kind of think about it as like Super Bowl commercials right, like everybody who can afford a Super Bowl commercial. Like they're not there to make a first impression. They're there to like get in front of you and put them back on your mind, but, like, most of the time, most of the time, they're not even really telling you like what the sales are. It's just something to like get their brand back in front of you.
Speaker 3:And I feel like there's a common misconception, because it's not like everyone who needs a good aesthetic. Social media is not like begging for customers or they need it per se, but it's like if you're not a household name and like somebody does look you up on Instagram, more people now are going to your Instagram before they go to your website. So it's like do you want to look good, like how do you want to look to these people who are looking you up online? Because they're going to go now to social media first, before your website. And it doesn't mean that you need to do all these things because you're begging for business. It's more just like your reputation.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I would say the bottom rule would be it should match the personality of the brand. So if your brand is fun, silly, colorful, it should show that on the page. If it is clean cut, minimalistic, professional, it should show that on your page.
Speaker 3:And being a aesthetic doesn't mean not having personality too. I think people get that mixed up too. They're like so, like, oh, if it's so like planned out and curated, it doesn't like have personality, like. Those two things to me, are not like the same. You could have personality and be authentic and be raw and be real, but still have an aesthetic Instagram that's like curated and beautiful 200%.
Speaker 1:I have a question about Randy. Do you because we've heard a few people in the industry talk about this but do you take on clients that don't have brand because, right, like creating a curated grid, a pretty grid, requires these basic staples, yeah, do you take on clients that don't have that yet? Or do you say come to us after, or is that a service you provide before you go into it?
Speaker 3:That's so funny that you asked that we just changed that. We used to just do it like honestly for free, because we're like we're not working with people that don't have the branding, so we would just make a branding so that we could follow it, and we're like this is worth thousands of dollars.
Speaker 4:That's the foundation of everything, every piece of marketing you're going to do, whether it's on social media or elsewhere. So now it is a package that we offer. And, yeah, if you don't have your branding down, it is almost impossible to bring their vision to life because you don't have a foundation.
Speaker 3:But we honestly love doing it. It's part of one of my favorite parts is getting a brand. They don't really have their colors, their fonts, their mood board. They have none of that. And when I start with a client, I was so excited that I would just do it for them and be like, okay, we'll use these fonts for headings and do this and this is the vibe I'm going for. And then I was like this is literally a brand kit that brands pay literally thousands of dollars to get made. So now we offer as like an initial service that they can get a social media rebranding kit for us and it's like there's a separate fee for that. If you want to do it, yeah.
Speaker 2:Speaking of, I want to pop back into the aesthetics, which this kind of we were on topic, but do you have tips for someone that wants to make like an aesthetic grid, make their Instagram look a little bit prettier, but is struggling with it? Are there any like kind of rules that you follow or like some people do? Like a checkerboard or like a whatever Like. Is there anything that you follow that you feel like makes it easier?
Speaker 4:I would say there's so many different grid template outlines, like you said, like there's a checkerboard, yeah, the patterns, but I would say sometimes that makes it more confusing to people. So pick something that is you're able to do, that you know like wholeheartedly, that is doable, and I will post this type of post every Tuesday and I will post this type of post every Wednesday but don't go crazy with it of I need to post three times a day, and two needs to be this and four needs to be this and this needs to be the cover. Keep it simple.
Speaker 3:The biggest way to get like your Instagram to not be aesthetic. I think it's like spreading yourself too thin and trying to post every single day Like there's no way to create like high quality, planned out grid. If you're like really stretching yourself too thin with content and you're like posting too much that you can't keep up with it. In order to plan ahead, I would say, in order to make an aesthetic grid, you have to plan ahead Like you need to see like what your next weeks of posts are so you can move it around so it looks the most like aesthetic way. Yeah, use a grid planner. So we use a grid planner like called preview, and we'll put all of our posts for the next week like in it and make sure it looks beautiful. And if one post is like sticking out like a sore thumb, we'll like redesign the cover page so that it looks the way that we want it to.
Speaker 3:But I would say like a trick that we all do in the office is like making sure the branding is like set in stone. So if it's too canva graphically like we call it, like it looks like your page like threw up canva on it. We do not want that. Like you want to make sure, like she said, instagram was a photo at first. Like you could tell, the pages that are too graphically sometimes look like spammy, so you want to get some real photo's integrated into the grid. Once you realize you're doing too many graphics, your grid aesthetic is probably gonna look worse.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you gotta have some diversity there. And it's funny because when we're doing our preview app and we're like planning the grid, I look at the colors first. She looks at like the chaos on the page, like in each square. I'm like she's like, okay, well, there's a lot happening here. I'm like, oh, but that one's a lot darker and this one's a lot less.
Speaker 1:I look at color. I'm like I look at those.
Speaker 2:It's so funny you bring that up, because I kind of see both Like I think when I first started kind of planning out grids internally, I was like this is a chaotic one, I need a simple one. Now I need chaotic. But now when I plan it I usually will do like on canva I'll just put six blocks and I block them out by color. So that way I'm like okay, I need a photo that's like maybe a greener photo here. I need like an all white type of maybe I'll zoom in on this one. And now I do it like mostly just by color blocks. I mean, I still will do like if these are two very chaotic photos, I don't want them next to each other, but those are like the two things that I hear. The most is either kind of like how much is going on in the photo or the majority color in the photo.
Speaker 3:And it is funny too, because like aesthetic is something that's like rather like subjective. So sometimes we'll be like this looks really good. I'm like no, it doesn't. I'm like vice versa, I'll be like this looks good, right, and she's like, no, I would put that there. And so that's like, because, like, at the end of the day, sometimes social media is an opinion and when you're at something that's like everything that both her and I make as high quality, so like at that point it really is just a failure.
Speaker 3:There's no wrong answer. There's no wrong answer is sometimes it just comes down to preference and we'll have that conversation with clients, sometimes like what you made and what you want and what we want, like they're similar. I will do both.
Speaker 4:But like neither are wrong, neither are wrong.
Speaker 3:Yeah, at that point sometimes. So that's something you're number two about your brand, as long as you're aligned.
Speaker 2:I have like one final question in terms of aesthetics and looks, because you brought up Canva. What are your thoughts on Canva templates? Because I think there's a little bit, especially now I see a lot of people dog on them recently, because it's like you can tell like they all look the same and it's like like I have some friends that are graphic designers that are like roll their eyes at the canvas templates because they're like, oh my God, I see them everywhere and it's like your brand has it, that brand has it, this brand has it, like everybody's using the same. So what's kind of your, your stance on those?
Speaker 4:The key word there is template. It is a template. It is not the end goal, that is not the published piece. By the end of you reworking and making it your own, you really should know what the template with the start was. Making your own that is. A template is a starting guide and run from there.
Speaker 3:We always say that, like the canvas, template, like, should not be the final product, like you need to put your own brand colors, you need to change the template. Delete those like little squiggly things.
Speaker 2:They always delete the squiggly things, always delete the squiggly things, always delete the stars, the stars delete the stars.
Speaker 3:Okay, everybody delete the stars on your camera graphic. But we always say, like all of our graphics on roots are page that we make on Canva, but like we make it so that you can never tell that we made it on Canva. Just because we use a template and change it so much that the template that we first liked is unrecognizable. And something I like to search like a little hack is I always like to put like Canva Instagram template like minimal, because it has like a lot of sleek, nice templates that are like you can really get creative and customize them a little bit better.
Speaker 3:So if you ever need something to search to get started, that's a good one minimalistic that's the key word minimalistic Instagram story and minimalistic Instagram posts has a good, a lot of good options, yeah yeah, that's typically how I started.
Speaker 2:I do the same thing with templates. Like I have a hard time just starting with a blank page, like my brain is just like I do not know what to do like there's so many on. Yeah, I'm overwhelmed, so I'll start with a template and 99% of the time it looks looks absolutely nothing like the template for it before.
Speaker 2:But I'm like at least now there's like a starting point and half of the time I put the template up and I'm like this is hideous, this is. I actually don't even really like this template, but like I just need like something there.
Speaker 3:I like. 99% of the time I click the template and then when it shows you the ones that are similar, I always find the one that I like in there. Like it's never the first one I click on and it's more the suggested one, suggested ones that are similar to that one that'll end up using.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I totally agree.
Speaker 1:Deeper and deep enough, like they just search it, they take that first one. Yeah, there are thousands like you know or, if you like, find it like you said, keywords to use in that search. You can find some like things that have never been seen before.
Speaker 4:Absolutely no. They're great to use as user right.
Speaker 2:I loved all of these tips from you guys. Where can everybody find you?
Speaker 4:Instagram tick tock at roots marketing agency.
Speaker 3:Yeah, our website is roots marketing agencycom. We're on Instagram or handles the same. We're actually like on all the social media platforms like LinkedIn, like she said, pinterest, instagram and tick tock. I would say Instagram and tick tock our main, so obviously.
Speaker 2:Yeah 100%. Love well. Thank you guys, so much for being on and we'll talk to you later, thanks.